Passion of the Christ Devil Holding Baby Explained

INTERVIEW

An Insider's Expect at 'The Passion of the Christ'

By Belinda Elliott
CBN.com Producer

CBN.com – Father John Bartunek was privileged to be on the ready during the filming of Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ. He as well accompanied Gibson during the post-production editing of the film and traveled with him on promotional tours for the picture show.

In his book, Within The Passion: An Insiders Look at The Passion of The Christ, Bartunek takes readers behind the scenes of the moving picture and provides biblical, historical, and theological insights gleaned from the fourth dimension he spent with the picture's crew and actors. I recently had the opportunity to speak with Male parent Bartunek about his fourth dimension on the set of the picture. I had many questions to enquire him, and his answers were very interesting. The entire transcript of the interview follows below, or click on the questions that interest you lot near:

• How did he become involved with the picture show?
• Which scene of the flick was his favorite?
• What were Mel's motivations for the mode he portrayed the devil in the picture show, and what was the significance of the strange baby in the motion picture?
• Was the issue of violence in the moving-picture show something that was greatly debated on the set?
• Were there any miracles that took identify on the set during the making of the pic?
• Did the crew or Mel follow whatsoever spiritual regimens such every bit daily prayer on the prepare?
• What were people's reactions when they outset saw Jim Caviezel in his makeup?
• Is the film anti-Semitic?
• What effect has The Passion of the Christ had on our culture?
• Has this movie opened doors in Hollywood for more films to exist fabricated that explore faith and organized religion?
• Why was the motion picture passed over at this year'due south Oscar Awards?

BELINDA ELLIOTT: How did yous come to exist involved with the film? Did yous know Mel Gibson beforehand?

Male parent JOHN BARTUNEK : It was completely providential. I was living and studying theology in Rome when they came to Rome to film the flick. And a friend of a friend knew someone working on the film, and so we visited the set, and that's how information technology all started. I met Mel, I met Stephen McEveety the producer, I met Jim Caviezel. I simply kind of struck up some friendships and before I knew it I was kind of swept into a 2-year, behind-the-scenes experience where I was working on the picture show on the gear up and then accompanied Mel in the post-product and accompanied him on his promotional tour also.

ELLIOTT: Wow, that's awesome.

BARTUNEK : Yes, information technology was quite an experience for a young seminarian.

ELLIOTT: And so what let you to want to write this book?

BARTUNEK : You know, there was so much that was written about The Passion of the Christ, and so much that was talked about. In that location were and so many unlike views, that I felt that the perspective that I was blessed to have, being behind the scenes, would add a perspective no i else had been able to add. There was so much that went into the movie, and so many decisions that Mel made that made, to brand the movie as smashing as it was. And the more than you know nearly that -- the more you know about why he did this or how he got that scene right, why he included this scene, and where he got that thought -- the more you know about all those things, the more you get out of the movie and the more yous understand why The Passion of The Christ was such a powerful cinematic feel. So that'south why I asked Mel, "Why don't we exercise a volume on it?" and that is where information technology came from.

ELLIOTT: Was there any particular scene in the moving picture that was your favorite to write about?

BARTUNEK : Well, one of the reasons that I wrote the book was because there were so many of the scenes that were very interesting. Each i has its own history. Information technology'south really remarkable.

One scene where the actual filming of information technology that really struck me was the scene were Judas has been driven out of the city, he is on the verge of despair, and he takes a await at that rotting donkey carcass. He sees it, and he begins to cry. He falls into despair, and then he commits suicide. They filmed that over and over once again trying to become the right look of Judas and they couldn't become it. And finally, Mel told Judas, "When you run across that rotting donkey" -- which is, interestingly enough, with the rotting maggots and the clenched teeth of that carcass, information technology's an image of hell where y'all gnash your teeth and the where the worm dies not. So Mel gave the direction to the actor of Judas, an Italian man named Luca Lionello, Mel said, "Luca when yous see that carcass, I want you to recollect, 'My soul is in worse status than that.'" That was the management. And the very next take they took, Judas turned effectually and he started to weep. It was the perfect look, and they kept the accept.

Only the amazing affair is, and this is why I wrote the book, each scene has its ain history – the meaning behind it, and then how they actually filmed it, and the little details that Mel changed on the ready. He even added some scenes while they were filming. And so I talk about that in the volume. I explain why he added some and why he took some out. Its just fascinating to know that kind of background.

ELLIOTT: It'due south interesting how some of the scenes in particular really captured the audience. I remember when we get-go started to cover the moving-picture show on our Web site, we got a lot of email from readers asking about how the devil was portrayed in the pic and also well-nigh the "ugly babe" in the flick. What were the motivations behind those particular scenes?

BARTUNEK : First of all, the concept of including the devil as a grapheme, as a persona in the film, was kind of a new thing to do really for this type of movie. But Mel really wanted to do it because it was important to bear witness who was behind all of this suffering and all of this evil.

And so, it'southward fascinating to know how he chose to describe the devil the way he did. The actress who played the devil is a woman in her 30s, a very beautiful adult female. And he wanted to make certain that the devil was in a certain sense attractive, in a certain sense seductive, because that's what temptation is. The devil doesn't announced to u.s.a. with horns and a pitchfork and flaming fire; that would scare us away. He wants to seduce us. But every time he gives a temptation, evil is never purely good. In that location is always this distortion of something good. So when they filmed the devil, they filmed the actress at a different flick speed so she comes beyond as kind of odd. They shaved her eyebrows. When she spoke, they dubbed a male person vocalization over her. They shaved her pilus. So information technology is something in itself, a person who is very cute, only it'southward distorted a footling bit. And that'southward what evil is. That's what the devil does. And that was an important concept to communicate in the flick.

And the dissimilar scenes in which the devil appears – I kind of get into them in detail in the volume – but there is ever something that is being distorted, something good that is being distorted.

ELLIOTT: And what almost that foreign infant?

BARTUNEK : Well, there were kind of two levels of intent there, and I explore them in depth in the book considering information technology is such a memorable prototype. It's kind of a haunting image. You see the devil appear with what looks a like a infant, maybe it'southward a sign of hope, and then you realize, "Wait a minute; it'south not a normal infant. What'south going on? Oh no, information technology's all wrong!" And you have that experience of it. It'due south actually interesting.

There are two levels of intent: one is artistic and one is theological. Yous put that in there artistically at that moment considering if you lot think, when that paradigm appears they accept merely turned Jesus over onto His back during the flagellation scene, and they are first to scourge Him on His chest. So information technology is an intensification of His suffering. Mel wanted to show that because that's the kind of thing they did. Flagellation was a horrible punishment. And he wanted to be able to show that, but he knew that if he only showed that without any other images, you just wouldn't exist able to watch information technology. So by giving this strange image of the devil actualization over again with that strange baby, he was giving the imagination somewhere else to go. And he did that a lot. He also had a flashback during that sequence. He went to Mary Magdalene during that sequence in order to make information technology watchable. Information technology was a vivid tactic. He said he can prove the brutality, but he can actually brand it watchable because the imagination has places to get.

The other level was really theological. At the moment when the manifestation of evil, Christ's suffering, was intensifying -- because they were scourging Him on His chest and going mode overboard – when y'all see the devil at that bespeak, yous have to run into an intensification of the devil'due south own evilness. And when the devil mocks the well-nigh beautiful affair in the human feel, a female parent with her child -- that'southward i of the most powerful icons of goodness, of dazzler and purity – when the devil mocks it, it is an intensification of the devil's ain distortion of what is good, which corresponds to the intensification of the suffering that Christ is experiencing.

ELLIOTT: Y'all've mentioned the brutality of the film, and the new version of the film that Mel Gibson is releasing has less violence. When they were first filming the motion-picture show, was the violence in the film an issue that was greatly debated on the prepare?

BARTUNEK : Actually, it's funny that when you lot make a picture, and this was kind of news for me, y'all don't really get an impression of the whole moving-picture show at all while you are making it. You only practise little $.25 and pieces here and there. The whole flagellation scene took hours; the filming of it extended over days. They would practise xx seconds, then they would do a minute, so they would change everything around. So even the actors and people who were working on information technology didn't get an impression of what it was going to look like on motion picture. So they didn't really talk most it. It wasn't actually an issue. Just subsequently they saw the initial presentation of the film, even the actors themselves were shaken by how powerful information technology was. So on the set, there wasn't really much discussion of information technology, and everyone actually had a lot of conviction in Mel. The discussion really came after. A lot of the critics of the picture accused the film of being besides violent.

But the way I look at it is, if you lot understand – and this is one of the themes in the book that really comes out -- when y'all understand why Mel decided outset of all to make the movie, and how he decided to put it together and what went into each scene. One of the key things for him, and he talked well-nigh this at diverse times, was that he wanted to brand this as realistic as possible. Because so many times we've go so used to seeing crucifixes and talking nearly flagellation, but we really don't know what it was similar. To understand the intensity of Christ's love nosotros really need to empathize the intensity of His suffering. And through the ages Christians have fatigued forcefulness from that. Then Mel actually wanted to communicate that; and the flick does a nifty job of communicating that. That'southward why it was rated R, considering Christ actually did suffer a lot. So there is meaning behind the violence.

But on the other hand, information technology is of import to realize that the significant backside the violence isn't just the violence itself. The divergence betwixt this movie and other tearing movies – there are many other movies that are much more violent – the deviation is that this picture shows non only the violence, simply also the suffering that goes with the violence. That's what makes anybody uncomfortable. That'southward why the critics were so concerned and so critical. They said, "That's then tearing" because they felt uncomfortable because they saw the suffering. And you know, I call up, that'south a symptom of mayhap a non-healthy tendency in our own society where our highest value is comfort and ease. And nosotros are afraid of self-sacrifice and fidelity and the cede that information technology causes. So I really think the stardom between violence and suffering helps united states sympathise that issue in The Passion of The Christ.

ELLIOTT: Switching gears a little bit, I've heard stories of miracles that happened on the prepare during filming. Did you see any of that?

BARTUNEK : Well, there was a lot going on at different levels during the filming process. I go into some of these experiences and give some background of them in the book. But the way I looked at, there were really two types of miracles that were happening all throughout the filming. One was the supernatural manifestations where there were shocking occurrences that no one really knew how to explicate. At that place was a real atmosphere of openness near spiritual things, and people felt very comfortable talking about those things. So even when someone mentioned that there was a problem in the family, or a relative was sick, people would pray. In that location were some people who were healed, some people who had been really sick and came dorsum. So there was that kind of miracle. There were also those ii lightning strikes that were so famous where the same young man was struck twice by lightning and he wasn't injured at all. You can kind of read that either way…only anybody on the set said, "Something is going on. This flick is a little more than your normal film." And then I go into the details of that in the volume and explain things that happened.

But at that place is some other category of miracles that, personally, I think are much more powerful. And that has to practice with the changes of hearts. Everyone who worked on the film was changed. Everyone was touched. They were all brought into this powerful meditation on Jesus Christ. They were all looking at this image of Christ twenty-four hour period in and day out, and contemplating it and trying to empathise it. Everyone was changed past that.

I think speaking to the woman who played Veronica. Y'all might remember the scene; information technology's a very spiritual moment when Jesus is carrying His cross. He falls and Veronica comes to wipe His confront and offer Him something to beverage, and they accept an commutation in the middle of all the chaos and the soldiers and the melee, and she looks into His face up and He looks into her face. Do you know what the actress said after that scene? She was reflecting on it, and she said that during that moment she was able to believe in Jesus – something that she had never been able to practice before. She said, "I believed. For a I believed." And it really gave her hope. That kind of thing, to me, that'due south the existent miracle. And that kind of matter happened a lot.

ELLIOTT: Yous mentioned that a lot of people would pray for each other, were there whatsoever kind of spiritual regimens on the set where possibly they would start off each mean solar day with prayer or anything like that?

BARTUNEK : No, there was nothing official, nothing formal. At that place were and so many different types of people working on the film from different organized religion backgrounds. There were atheists and agnostics and all kinds of people representing different religions, and I retrieve Mel and the other members of the team were very respectful. And then there was never annihilation where anyone had to do something together, or they all went to mass at the first, or they went to a worship service after. However, as I mentioned, the temper was very open, and being on the fix myself as a clergymen, it was for me just kind of a not-end series of spiritual conversations. Everyone felt very comfortable speaking about those things. Of course Mel and Jim themselves, equally men of faith, fabricated a point of making sure they got their prayer time in each mean solar day. And other people did as well, but there was nada formal.

ELLIOTT: In the book you mention a story about Jim Caviezel and his makeup. Tell me a little virtually that.

BARTUNEK : It was very interesting. Information technology was ane of the anecdotes that I think was a lilliputian more than humorous. Basically, the starting time time that Jim came out in his flagellation makeup no one had seen it before, and when he came out people were literally shocked. The people who were working on the set did a double take, and they stepped back and kind of tried to get abroad from him because it was so realistic. It was and then shocking. Even when he wasn't in his flagellation makeup, he had to get at that place very early in the morning merely then they could reconstruct his face up because they wanted him to look similar a Jewish man in the prime of his life back in the time of Christ. So they had to reconstruct his unabridged facial construction. And because of that he had some very moving experiences where some people would look at him and they would want to go up and requite him a hug and inquire for his approving. But he also had some of the opposite reactions. When he was walking to the trailer people who might not have been and then intimately connected to the picture show would see him and they would laugh at him and that kind of thing. For him, it helped him reflect on the role and realize that these are the unlike reactions that people have had to Christ through the centuries. And then it helped him deepen his own reflection on the function he was playing.

ELLIOTT: Before the picture was released in that location was a considerable amount of controversy about information technology and some people said it was anti-Semitic. How did you experience virtually that?

BARTUNEK : Well, on the 1 hand I was glad that the effect was raised when the film came out considering the relations between Christians and Jews through the centuries take not always been good. I recall it was something to raise the issue, to remind us and purify the memory a piffling bit and say, "Yes, at times, Christians have non behaved very well toward Jews; and at other times Jews haven't behaved very well toward Christians." That'southward a fact of history and we shouldn't ignore that. So I was glad the Jewish community raised the issue. I constitute information technology very instructive yet, that after the movie came out those criticisms simply evaporated as anybody realized that the movie simply wasn't anti-Semitic. So my promise is that this chat helped our electric current generation of Jews and Christians understand each other better. I recall the film itself actually gave the states a chance to talk to each other, and get to know each other better, and sympathize one another's faith and position. And so the proof is in the pudding; the film is not anti-Semitic at all. The focus on Christ and on His forgiveness and His mercy is simply the opposite of anti-Semitism. And also the focus in the movie is on the personal encounters with Christ, how Jesus has very i-on-1 personal encounters, and everyone reacts differently. It doesn't thing what race yous are, and that actually comes across. That'due south the center of the film I think, that personal encounter with Christ.

ELLIOTT: What effect practise you think this film has had on our culture and on their understanding of Christianity?

BARTUNEK : I think The Passion of The Christ has been a real "flop" in the culture. A bomb, not in the sense of being a failure, simply that information technology exploded. Information technology touched a nerve in today'southward club that hasn't been touched in a long time, and it made the world spring. I hope -- and 1 of my reasons backside writing the book -- is that we can keep that live because the film combined ii things that our order has been trying to keep carve up for the terminal 50 or 60 years, which is mainstream media and entertainment and deep religious faith. For the last few decades they take been desperately trying to divide those two things. And hither you have a motion picture from one of the well-nigh influential movie stars in Hollywood that is i of the most successful films of the decade, not but in the states merely in the world, and information technology's all about religious faith and God's mercy and the bulletin of Christ. So these two things, you have the pop civilisation, and the secularized civilization, and religious faith come together in The Passion of the Christ, and the world didn't know what to do about it. Then my hope is that we as believers can go on that alive, and that can exist kind of like a beachhead in the boxing to actually bring Christian values back into society.

ELLIOTT: Practice you recollect the film opened doors in Hollywood for more movies to be made that explore organized religion or faith?

BARTUNEK : I call back it has. You accept the recent movie that came out, Constantine. And even in talking with other screenwriters and people in other production companies, at that place is this flood of new screenplays dealing with spiritual things that is happening in Hollywood. Then yous have this fascinating project by Walden Media, the C.S. Lewis books, The Chronicles of Narnia, they are putting those on motion-picture show. That's a huge, very expensive and very mainstream project. And then I really think that the Holy Spirit might be backside this in a certain sense, and in that location might be a real renewal. But nosotros need to help. And that's why I call back it is then important for us to try to become experts in this moving picture. If nosotros can go experts in The Passion of the Christ, if we tin can know what went into it, why it made such a splash and why it had such an impact, and then nosotros tin can further that impact. We can be agents of change. That'due south one of the things that I hope my book is able to exercise, to help people really go experts in this picture show so we tin can extend the influence of it.

ELLIOTT: As y'all know this yr's Oscars Awards was held recently, and The Passion of the Christ was passed over by the Academy. What practise you think about that?

BARTUNEK : Well, personally, I wasn't surprised. But I was disappointed. I wasn't surprised because this movie is in a completely different category than what the mainstream Hollywood people are used to. And I can imagine that they don't even know where this fits. This is a movie in Latin and Aramaic. It's almost Jesus Christ. It'southward like, "Where does this fit?" Then I wasn't surprised that they didn't include it. Just I was disappointed because sheerly from an artistic standpoint information technology was an absolutely triumph. I mean call back about this motion picture. Everybody already knows the story, beginning of all. Other movies have been made about information technology before. This i wasn't fifty-fifty in English. It had subtitles, and it was in Latin and Aramaic. And withal, Mel Gibson was able to find the right combination artistically to make this the third highest grossing film of the year. And we are all the same talking about it. Information technology'due south yet on the main TV shows. Information technology is even so controversial. Information technology is still moving people. And then it was the highest selling activeness DVD in history. So yous take this foreign combination. The fact that he was able to do that is quite an achievement. And the fact that is wasn't recognized even with a nomination for Best Director was a little bit disappointing. I think it was also a little revealing maybe. I don't know who is on the Academy, merely let's promise that perchance in the future they will be a little more open to because these types of movies.

ELLIOTT: I'thou curious, when you were on the set I'chiliad certain at that place was an attitude everyone involved wanted to make the best move they maybe could, but was there whatever idea that it would be equally big every bit information technology was?

BARTUNEK : There actually wasn't a full general attitude similar that. Everyone was excited to exist working with such a dandy squad – one of the best directors of photography in Hollywood and Mel Gibson of course -- everyone was excited about that, so they knew information technology was going to be a motion picture that people took note of. But there was no sense that it was going to take such an impact worldwide, that it would be such a phenomenon, at least at the get-go. Equally the controversy began to mash and then I think the sense grew that, "Oh, look, this is a big deal. This movie is more than than your boilerplate film." But most of all, I call back the attitude on the set of the actors and the crew members, the product administration, and everyone, was that this was something special. Everyone had a sense that this was something special. They didn't know exactly why or what was going to happen, but everyone knew this was something special. And it created a existent sense of family for all the people working on the film. I was pleasantly surprised to find that. At that place was a real bond, and people are notwithstanding in contact with each other. That bond has lasted.

ELLIOTT: Annihilation else you lot would like our readers to know?

BARTUNEK : I would just like to say that the concept of the book, Inside the Passion, is actually like getting a tour of a cathedral or a keen piece of work of art from someone who was lucky enough to be in the workshop when the artist was making it. And it really enhances your feel of the film. So I promise that people who have read it take already institute that, and I promise that people get a chance to find that because information technology is really worth becoming an expert in this film.

ELLIOTT: The book truly does assist you understand the movie meliorate. Thank you so much for talking with me today.

BARTUNEK : I capeesh information technology. Give thanks you.

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Inside The Passion: An Insiders Look at The Passion of The Christ is published by Rising Printing. For more data, visit www.insidethepassion.com.

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